039 - Building your team with Damian Papworth

Agency Highway
Agency Highway
039 - Building your team with Damian Papworth

When it comes to growing a team for your digital agency, there are many ways to go about it. Damian Papworth has been through this process and shares his tips for building your team.

Whether you’re freelancing and want to make your first hire, or already have a team and want to expand, there’s something in this episode for you.

We discuss:

  • Attitude to spending money
  • Leveraging your time
  • Working with experts
  • Value adding to your clients

Resources mentioned in the episode

Connect with Damian

About Damian

Damian Papworth is the founder and managing director of global digital service provider Globital. With almost two decades’ experience in the Australian digital marketing industry, he has quickly become the authoritative voice of digital marketing across Australia.

Entering the digital marketing world in 2003/04, Damian started Ocean Feather Digital on the Gold Coast and the business soon grew – alongside the emerging online world – to become a well-rounded company specialising in SEO, AdWords and web development. After 10 years of expansion and success, he negotiated the sale of Ocean Feather Digital to ASX-listed Reeltime Media in late 2013 to launch a new venture.

Globital, a white label, wholesale provider, now services six countries across the world under various brands from its offices at Burleigh Heads on the Gold Coast, with support teams as far afield as South Africa, Philippines and Pakistan.

Damian’s experience has solidified his reputation as an expert in solving the frustrations that all digital marketers around the world face in the day-to-day running of their own businesses and is committed to ensuring his partners can deliver more robust, effective and successful digital marketing efforts to their clients.

Related resources

  • Content Snare for collecting website content from clients, as an alternative to GatherKit


James Rose:                       Welcome back to another episode of Agency Highway today is, I was just about to say it's an awesome topic, but I say this literally every time. I guess that's why I get the guests on that I do because it really is another one of my favorite topics in growing your team, especially like growing beyond just yourself. If you're a freelancer and to talk about that, I've got Damian Papworth from Globital on the line. So, thanks for joining me Damian.

Damian Papworth:          Thanks for having me James. It's good to be here.

James Rose:                       Yeah, it's been a long time coming. We've been hanging out and talking about business and stuff for a while and even doing some i guess, mini joint venture type stuff. And so to finally get you on is awesome. So let's start with just a little bit of a introduction about you and Globital and how you got started in agency life.

Damian Papworth:          Globital we are a little bit different to most agencies. We're wholesale. So we're, I guess more commonly known as an outsource agency, but we just do wholesale. So a lot of the white label outsource agencies do retail work as well. Like they'll sell direct. You know, we made the decision that that's a completely different business and we just wanted to help agencies. So we structured our business around helping agencies grow. I came to that because I used to be an agency. I started my agency back in 2003, and my story I think it's pretty common. Well, I came in doing AdWords, Google AdWords. I started because I wanted a bit of a challenge. I was a bit bored in my career wanted a challenge and I've just started promoting affiliate campaigns, like chasing an affiliate dollar.

James Rose:                       Nice. I think a lot of us started that way.

Damian Papworth:          Exactly. We all did. And it might not be AdWords. It might be, you know, created a website for the PSC store or something because you wanted something to do and everyone went, wow. So you go into web design and then if you get lucky you get a few other people say, do one for me, do one for me. And that's how I started, you know, started doing affiliate programs, started making a bit of money. I remember I left my job, was being paid 120 grand a year. Cause I make 20 grand one month, and double the next month and I'll double it to, I'm sorry, not 20 grand, $20 one month doubled it to $40 the next month. Doubled it to $80 the next month. That's it. So I quit my job to go full-time. So, but what happened I guess is a bunch of my mates are in small business, heard what I was doing and they wanted help.

Damian Papworth:          This new online thing, this thing Google and wanted help. So I started helping them and gradually built my agency, from there. And I guess, I mean you'd mentioned yourself, that's a really common story. That's sort of how we all get into it. And yeah, so I went through all the same struggles and all the same challenges at all agencies had coming from that kind of background. I got stuck a few times. If I sold that agency in 2013 to do this model. The first time I got stuck was really expanding beyond myself. And then I got (inaudible) what really stuck when I had to grow past that 300 grand. And you know, in this is wholesale model now all I do is speak to agencies and these are really, really common points of, of getting stuck. And there are real, real common themes behind that. And then once you get past the 300. the next one is about one and a half million, this is very different sort of challenges there.

James Rose:                       Yeah, I love, what you guys have done with the wholesale? Only by the way, I remember coz we were going down that model when we were still doing agency stuff and at some point we were doing custom software development as a partner for agencies, but we also had, we were also building websites on that retail front. And a business coach, James Schramko. Used to be in this high level mastermind and he, one of his bits of advice was just like, you need to stop doing that because now you're a competitor to the people you're trying to partner with in a way, which is not a good look.

Damian Papworth:          Absolutely, I don't understand why anyone would give their client database to a white label agency who's also doing retail stuff. Just, your giving your client database to a competitor. I don't understand it.

James Rose:                       Yeah. So well done on switching to wholesale, like part of me wants to go in and talk about all the affiliate stuff cause I could be on about that all day about, oh man, it's how we got started as well. And it's just so funny. We were contributing to making the Internet a terrible place, but let's not, because that's not the topic, uh, chat. So where do you think is the best place to start? You know, I guess for someone who's just, it's just themselves at the moment of freelance. So I think that's pretty common that I see in a Facebook group and people reaching out to me just be them. Maybe plus a couple of contractors, you know, like a writer or a couple of other people they can pull in. Maybe not even that. Oh, so that's probably where we could start.

Damian Papworth:          Yeah. Cool. So I think, I think the theme's quite similar no matter where you are, whether your sort of at that trying to break out of the just by itself or the next step, which is that sort of that 300 mark that most people get stuck at. Quite often when I'm sitting with an agency, I'll draw this on a notepad with them, but I'll try to explain what it looks like. But when you start where you've got a small team or you're partnership. I like to think of everything we do as a triangle. So I draw a triangle and everything we do is within that triangle. And you know, when I started it, when I started my business like affiliate business, the kind of things that I was doing is signing up to affiliate programs, which are full, I had a chance with. Creating a campaign with AdWords, with my own money.

Damian Papworth:          Having a couple of spreadsheets, which I had a lot of fun with trying to work out. You know, I mean, it's basically arbitrage the one dollar putting in is that $7 coming out at the other end. Having a lot of fun with that and then trying to scale through, pumping more money into the system. And you know, that started and then all of a sudden I had a few mates who wanted me and that was my triangle at the start. That was the whole trial. And I had a ball. But then I had a few mates saying, can you help us? And I'm like yeah, cool. So the first thing I to do is sit down and have a discussion on how it all works and you know, do that free consulting that we all do. Which is really bad for sales by the way, once we did mates, but not anyone else.

Damian Papworth:          So, you know, sales meetings became part of my triangle and then these guys didn't just want like the dollars that couldn't say the dollars coming. And so all of a sudden I had to do reporting, and sending invoices, you know, I never send invoices with the affiliate model. So all of a sudden I've got within my triangle, you know, the client meetings, the reporting, invoicing. And then I spoke to my accountant and I have to stop keeping books also that I'm doing bookkeeping too. And then one of them wanted me to do a website for them. She was, she was actually my first real client. So I built a website for Mel and all of a sudden I'm doing reading Dreamweaver for dummies and trying to put an HTML website together and i end up doing three or four websites for her. She is actually my first product came in and the last to leave. We have a really, really good relationship.

Damian Papworth:          But now I'm doing web coding also. And then SEO started. And it's, you know, it's all within the same triangle of expertise that I had well, not expertise, that triangle of time that I had. So, and I think that's really, really fun. And you know, obviously if we have a few people in our team at those starting points, and maybe we're in a partnership within management's part of it, maybe human resources as part of it too. So all of a sudden I went from doing something that was a real challenge and a lot of fun. And you know, slapping myself on the back to all these other things that I never intended to do, and I didn't even enjoy.

Damian Papworth:          And that's common. I mean, I can see you're nodding your head. Exactly. So that's common. So, yeah, totally. So the thing is, so within our triangle, look, if we look at that triangle, it's got three sides and I see to move from that point, we need to leverage one of three things. And we've got, when I draw this, the left hand side going up to the top point, I'll put the money or right money we have to leverage money. Top point down the right hand side is time, you know, we need to leverage time. And then the one along the bottom is expertise and they work differently. So, let's talk about money first because to leverage money, and this is one of the things that are really, really enjoy about working with you James over the, you know, the last six, nine months or so. Is to leverage money, we need more cost effective resources and there's two basic ways that we can do it that come readily to mind, you might know of otherwise.

Damian Papworth:          But the two ways to do it is basically resource, find more cost effective staff. And that's what I do in the outsourcing model. And the way I do that is by taking advantage of currency in different countries with different currency rights. I'll have access to more cost effective resources. The other way we can do it, which is your model is by using software rather than people. And yes, use software rather than time. Time's one of the most expensive things you can buy and new to your system and your, Content Snare solution is really, really cool that it takes time away from agencies and uses a piece of software instead.

James Rose:                       You know, that topic is huge. I just expect someone to be like, you're only saying that because you have a software product. But this was a huge thing that changed in my mind several years ago coz I was at the point of close to burn out, you know, doing so much stuff and I was averse to spending money on software. Like I think it changed very, very rapidly for me because I was just, I was like, I don't care at this point I'll spend money to save half an hour, you know. I'll spend x amount of dollars a month, I don't care. I just need to get some stuff off my plate. And that changed so much. Now, granted, I have an enormous list of software that I pay for now, but it also means there's so much stuff I don't have to do. You know, like of course these softwares weren't magic bullets.

James Rose:                       I had to set them up and create processes around them from my team and that, but man, it's just made the business so much more effective. And while I can still understand the reluctance to pay for software that's going to save you time cause a lot of people have that mindset. I still understand it cause I was that for so long and I just wish I could make more people make that same switch I did because my life has improved so much since then. You know, like just to pay a little bit of money to save all this time and my sanity and I can go and do stuff that I like doing in this sort of work.

Damian Papworth:          Yeah, exactly. And a really cool story. One of the early clients I had, they were quantity surveyors in Victoria. My brother, very successful accountant, and every time these guys did one of the quantity surveying reports, I can't remember what they send to their clients so their clients would get all the tax reductions. It was a manual process. It took someone in the office, literally four hours, five hours. So I call my brother I just completely doubted ourselves l got my brother's accountant to basically build some macros and formulas in this spreadsheet. So they put in the high level figures and everything calculated perfectly with him. That was five minutes, 5-10 minutes. And I think we charge a thousand bucks for it. Yeah. We should have touched 10 grand for it. But here's the point, of It's going back to an agency, and what you said about not paying for software. To think about your triangle.

Damian Papworth:          You know, I was lucky I had my brother to do that. If I was going to do that for them myself, you know, Excel Macros, not my expertise. it would have taken me ages. I'd have to get excel for dummies to work it out. So, It comes, it comes back. You know, I'm not going to leverage your money if it's going to cost you time. And I think that's one of the real tricks. You've got to, what they say, the rich man spends time to save money, sorry. The poor man spends time to make to save money. Whereas, the rich man spends money to save time.

James Rose:                       Oh, that is awesome. Perfect summary of kind of how, I'm trying to think about things now. Like to an extent, I don't have a clean out or someone to do my washing yet and I really want those things.

Damian Papworth:          Yeah, that's it. But you know, one of the best investments I made in business was a PA and I said that to me building a team to get to leave. But that's, that's the next, the next part of it is time. How do you leverage time. So, I talked about leveraging money. How do you leverage time, and leveraging time is building a team around you. That's how you become, you know, from doing two websites a month to being able to doing 20 websites a month. You know, you build a team around you. Then obviously that's something that you can do by employing people or by outsourcing. And I as, an agency, I always, I mean there's, there's pros and cons to both. One of the positives with outsourcing that I think is you can serve and help people at a whole different sort of socioeconomic level.

Damian Papworth:          You know, if you're doing SEO example, a hundred percent local, you're looking for clients, who can spend a minimum of three or four grand a month with you. You know, if you're out using an outsource team, they can, people can get SEO, you know, 500, 600, 700 a month. So it becomes available to a whole raft of new clients. So, but you know, building or leveraging time, you just need to build a team. Whether it's local or it's you know, employment or outsourcing or getting freelancers in, you know, and the final will be is expertise. So expertise is quite cool. We don't, it's, I find it quite funny when I have a digital agency who comes to me and says, I don't believe in outsourcing because I'm like, well, you realize for you to exist, you have to have small, medium size businesses or whatever your niche is, outsourcing their marketing to you.

Damian Papworth:          So you have to believe in outsourcing. Because that's the whole point of your existence. But it's, expertise is really interesting because, you know, if we're coming to business or freelancing, we probably don't enjoy admin work. if we don't enjoy the admin work, we're probably not good at it. So why don't we outsource that to someone who's better at it. Whether it's a VA or an admin assistant or a PA, or, you know, you've got. Well bookeeping is another example too right? Booking is a perfect example. Absolutely perfect. I've had a bookeeper for years now, and I'm just so glad I don't even have to think about that stuff anymore. Yeah. Lawyers, I mean lawyers are something that are expertise that we outsource to. But in terms, so that's, that's really good at lifting your time into things that you should be doing. Because every time you do something that you're not an expert at, you take four or five or six times the amount of time that the expert takes. Which takes you four or five or six times the amount of time away from the stuff that you should be doing.

Damian Papworth:          So, you know, a bookkeeper who sets everything up and gets things done in two hours a month, you take three days a month to do it. So, but the other side of expertise is, for a business to work I mean, businesses, Why not talk about what businesses is, a system next to a database. It's a simple as that. It's a system and a database. And however, if you've got a business business, you're not just doing a job. You know, you've got a system and a database. And one of the things to make most value out of your system and your database is to maximize every dollar return, maximize the spend in your business from your database. And leveraging of other people's expertise is a brilliant way to do that. And the best example I can give is, a web developer who builds a website, charges five grand or whatever. Then has to take another client, builds another website, 5 grand.

Damian Papworth:          It's got, 2 client, 2 websites done. Average spend per client is 5 grand. Now if he gets an SEO expert on-board or outsource to some SEO team who can help him, all of a sudden. Most people that get a website done, want SEO or want some kind of marketing. So when they ask if you to do SEO also and you say yes, all of a sudden you're charging this guy a thousand a month for the SEO. Now the average lifetime value, that's two and a half years. So that's like 30 months of a thousand. That's 30 grand extra for that client that you've got. And that's how you can really grow beyond yourself. Who you are today, by leveraging on other people's expertise. Yeah. I like that. So, there is traps with all that. Do you want me to talk about the traps?

James Rose:                       Yeah. Well I mean absolutely. So, I'm just kinda thinking about how we built our agency as well. That's why I kind of went a bit quiet there cause you've got my brain ticking over. Excellent. Yeah. So I mean obviously there's always going to be traps like trying to, I mean hiring, hiring people is hard but also finding good freelancers and agencies and outsource providers is very hard. Right? Like a lot of people have stories about, like getting bitten by all kinds of people, you know, whether that's they just hired a bad person or someone didn't deliver. So yeah, I mean. I imagine that is a trap.

Damian Papworth:          So there's a great book called Who?. Which is a really cool book about, and top rating up to Quickbooks in hiring A players. And I will link these up in the show notes. I can't remember the author. So. I'll shoot them to you once I look it up, got them both in my Shingle.

James Rose:                       So just so you guys know, I will have those both in the show notes. If you go to agencyhighway.com and find the episode of Damien. They'll both be linked up there.

Damian Papworth:          Awesome. So they really cool about hiring, building team, but just a real focus rather. One of the challenges we do is when we hire people, hire resources, we talked about the things we want done rather than the outcomes that were looking for. So It really switches that around to really focus on the outcomes instead. Really cool sort of resources. But yeah, I think, going back to the triangle. So finding the right people, that's a challenge. Whether you do that locally or outsourcing. It's a lot easier to get rid of the outsource model or a freelance model than when you employ people. But yeah, I think it tends to be a lot easier to fix issues too with employees because they sit next to you and you can point to the screen and stuff.

James Rose:                       Yeah. There's obviously pros and cons of both and some people kind of think you just can't find anyone good in some of these quote unquote cheaper countries. But you know, I have had amazing employees on shore and off shore and I've had awful employees on shore and off shore. You know, like just coz someone's you know, in a cheaper country doesn't mean they are worse, be better at hiring and finding the right people.

Damian Papworth:          Quote often we get that impression they're worse coz of their scattered English. But, that's their second language. And I don't know any second language that I speak scattered at cause I'm at zero on that point. So that's like one up. But yeah. I love trying to employ copywriters and getting the resume's and they got spelling mistakes in their own resume's. But anyway, so what I like to do when I'm trying to explain pitfalls. So that's, that's sort of like a common challenge no matter what we do as far as building team. But what I like to do is maybe think about the triangle we drew, put a circle over the triangle. So a circle where you've got the tips of the triangle sticking out of it. So the circle only partially covers a triangle and obviously because of the way the shape of the triangle, sorry, the shape of the circle is, there's parts of the circle outside the triangle. So you've got a big space in between the circle and the triangle. Then you've got bits of triangle outside the circle and bits of circle, outside the triangle. Yup, that makes sense.It's like drawing a picture in your mind on radio.

Damian Papworth:          This is a really cool model because I mean we serve agencies in six countries now, all Western developed countries. And just like every business, we're not perfect. But it's really, really clear to us when our model doesn't suit an agency. And I think, when I think about what this looks like. It's Sorta kinda clear to me that building a team internally wouldn't suit those agencies either. Because what happens is if you think about the way that triangle and that circle overlay the bits where you got triangle and circle the bits where the overlay is, that's what your team are doing now. So that's what, when you build a team, That's the stuff you give the team to look after. And what happens to us as agencies though is we came into the industry, because you know, our love doing Adwords and I love that, the thrill of the arbitrage equation and making money out of nothing.

Damian Papworth:          But now in my model, that's what I have to give someone else to do. And If I were a web developer, that's what we have to give the coders to do. So that's a planning side and that's where building team mostly trips up is that we know this thing. And that's how we got into the industry. Part of what we did is what we loved. But we need to evolve too. As business evolving, as a business we need to evolve and become better also. Which means we need to lift. And we need to trust people to get that stuff done. And part of that is getting the right people. Part of that is setting targets correctly, all that kind of stuff. So that's what that business looks like as far as team. Now if you think about the points of the triangle which are outside the circle, that's the new us.

Damian Papworth:          So that's the part the team doesn't look after. So part of that's going to be management, part of that could be briefing. You know briefing and testing and that kind of stuff to make sure our team are on track. You know, a lot of that can be automated. I mean, James, you know, about you know, online briefing forums and feedback loops and reporting loops and stuff. And that kind of stuff. You can automate that to a long way. So that's the boring part of the outside of the triangle. So the real fun stuff is, you know, this is where we get to evolve as professionals and become better at whatever we're trying to do and whatever we love. This is also when, I mean, agency life is difficult but it's very competitive. And there are so many major agencies out there that have nothing really to say about who they are and what they're trying to do and what their point of difference is. If we focus on our genius and when I talk about our genius is that state of automatic flow with what we're doing.

Damian Papworth:          We're so involved in, and we so love that that's where we add maximum value to our clients. And that's where time, that's the timeless moments when we're at work. You know.

James Rose:                       The stuff where the whole day goes like in a, in a second.

Damian Papworth:          Yeah, absolutely. So that's where we should be spending our time. And maybe that's, you know, sitting with clients and understanding exactly where they're coming from and drawing the picture in your mind of the solution that you're team's going to deliver. But really having that vision, that's the stuff that we can move into. Or even for me, what it actually, how it ended up working for me, my outside the circle bits of triangle is in my creative, is in creating a business. You know, business creation is my creative outlet, you know, and I've spend a lot of time, you know, seeing the bigger picture stuff and putting all the bits and pieces in place that makes the legacy stuff. The stuff that I'll know the world's going to be better off because I was here. You know, if we focus on the inside the circle area rather than the outside tips of the triangle, we've missed all that and we don't get that.

Damian Papworth:          So, yeah, the biggest trap that I see, and this is particularly around agencies pushing through the second level, the second layer of stock, which is sort of like, when in my case was around 300, 350 grand, is we're focusing in the wrong area. We're still focusing on the, the stuff that brought us into the industry. And that's a mindset shift, to move beyond that. What do you mean by that? Sorry, what stuff that brought us in?. So like I was focusing all on how Adwords was working. I guess the real exciting thing about team too is if you look at the diagram, hopefully people were drawing this down on their notepad as they were listening. But this outside triangle bits of circle too. I mean, part of the circle or outside triangle. And this is where you get real, real benefit of getting the right team around you.

Damian Papworth:          This is sort of like the, the expertise that you'll leverage off. Or you know, for us, for example, with us, because I only worked with agencies. There's value add stuff that we put together just for agencies that other people can't. One good example is, I got together with my lawyer and you know, an agency putting all their legals together usually would pay 3 grand or so for that. Yeah. And we got a comprehensive legal contract for our agencies which cost me $47, that was everything. So that's something that, some value add that we can bring to the mix. We've got a similar one. I know some agencies are challenged with collecting money off clients who haven't paid their bills. It's something that no one enjoys. And I bring it up saying, you haven't paid the money. No one enjoys not being paid either.

Damian Papworth:          So we've created a whole debt and management process program of work that our agencies can.. That's a paid service. It's also one they can offer their clients, and re-sell to their clients help big bonds get paid, so agencies can make money out of it. Yes, to having a really good thing. But you know that's the same thing as what I said before. You know, hiring someone who's an SEO expert is tough. If you're a web developer that's stuff outside your expertise and whether that's an employee or whatever, that's something that's in the circle but outside of the triangle that adds extra value to your business. So it actually makes your business a bigger better one.

James Rose:                       Yeah, I guess we've tried to do a little bit of that in Content Snare because we don't really have the agency anymore. So I've got all these processes and things like ideas and how it got clients and all this like stuff that I don't have a need for any more that I can just give away right? And that's through both content free content and stuff that Content Snare subscribers get. So just to clarify, what do the triangle and circle represent in this? The triangle is kind of like your business and the circle, Is that your team? Cause well for example, it's team but it can be internal and external to the business.

Damian Papworth:          Really cool question because for an agency, I said the triangle is your business and it's what you're doing as a business owner today pretty much. It's your time, It's your app. And what the circle is, is when you need to grow, how do you push the boundaries of your triangle to make it bigger, better leverage your time better. So that's what other people bring. Part of that's the together stuff is what the team do, the team that you've built. The outside the circle bits of triangle are you evolving as a business person and your value adding your unique genius. And bits of circle outside the triangle are the extra stuff that your team bring, whether that's internal or external. Yeah. But here's the thing about this model, right? Agencies exist because businesses outsource their marketing. So if you think about your clients as an agency, you're the circle. And if you think about your clients, they're the triangle in this regard. So you flip it they're the triangle, and as you being the circle, what you need to think about, one of the things you need to think about is how do you ensure that your clients aren't doing the work and tripping you up in the middle bit. And you've also got to think about if you're the circle...

Damian Papworth:          What amazing things are you bringing to your clients that no one else is, that adds extra value to it. Which is outside their triangle and they should match up with. So for your clients, you being the circle bit outside that should match up with when your business, the outside triangle bit. Might say, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm on the same page now. It's a cool model. It's a good way to think about how we can evolve as, and let's face it, business is about, I think business, business and life are really, really similar. It's about evolving as people. It's about learning lessons. It's about facing challenges and fears and being better at the end of the day. But how can we evolve and as part of that, how can we help those we serve have better businesses.

James Rose:                       I really liked that concept of sort of value adding to your clients in whatever way. Like those, the bits of circle,outside of the triangle as you would say. And that was when we were doing, you know, retainers for website maintenance and marketing and stuff. That was way something I tried to come up with ways that we could add a lot of value to those plans without a lot of work. Yeah, just additional things you could add in. Sometimes that might be a tool. Like, I found a downtime, uptime monitoring tool that had like all these extra little features that we could give clients like, i don't know, domain expiry warnings or SSL expiry and that kind of stuff. And I was just like, man, like I can just add these in now so easily and they're just like, I don't know there are things that other people might not have been offering.

Damian Papworth:          Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm always looking for ways to do that with my sales too. One of the things is in conversations I have with clients, you know, we create, you know, education and coaching courses around that. So, you know, sales is a big one. We all come into this industry because we're good at marketing. We tend not to be good at sales. So I get sales purchasing to help their agencies. Yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, the challenges of sales and digital marketing, a little bit similar to my ( inaudible ) but a little bit unique. And so we put together stuff, specific to help our clients. And that's 100%, how can we, how can we help our clients, if we have time to get back to unique place. Right. Get back to that time. The thing that sets us apart from everyone else. How can we turn that into something that, you know, has amazing value.

James Rose:                       Yeah. Nice. I like it. So, I mean, what's the next thing in this, do you think? Like, I was just going to ask you what you guys do, but is there anything else you think we need to cover?

Damian Papworth:          Well I don't think so. I think, obviously we're happy to talk to.. thinking about going down the, the outsourcing route.

James Rose:                       Well you guys have a pretty large variety of services, right? So what kind of services do you do for agencies?

Damian Papworth:          So yeah, we do basically most of the standard things and linking some of the standard things together. So obviously Website, Web Design, Development, SEO, AdWords Management, Social Media Content, Social Media Advertising also. We do copywriting out of South Africa. South Africa, obviously English is a native language there. So we can offer native writers or native English speaking writers to get decent copy at content and that leads itself into, you know, we're building some products like, which is almost launched, Lead funnel Stall products and things like that too.

James Rose:                       So it's pretty comprehensive. Yeah. I remember working with you guys quite a while ago on, on SEO for some of our clients. Because obviously we didn't have the expertise in house and I mean, I guess I would have considered myself an SEO expert then, that's what I used to do. But what I did not have was at the time, yeah. And that's why we worked together. So I can totally see the value in working with an outsourced provider, especially when you don't want to hire a team internally. It makes sense to hire a few people. But like, you know, it can be a pretty massive step to hire someone that does SEO. And then someone that does Adwords, and then all this sort of stuff whose services that you want to add. And it's a lot of work. Like it's really hard to hire people, especially if you don't know if you don't have the expertise in those areas. I can totally say and have in the past worked with companies like Globital told to handle those parts. Right?

Damian Papworth:          Yeah, absolutely. And there are reasons why you would build a team internally and there's reasons why you'd use outsourcing and there's risks with both. Obviously lot of human resource risk by building team internally. Yeah. Human Resources and employment risk and that kind of stuff. And but you know, there's also quality, I mean everyone knows about the quality risk. And outsourcing in our industry hasn't done well. It's got a bad reputation for all the right reasons. You know, it hasn't been a great industry, which is part of the reason why I jumped in is to try to clean it up a bit. And I put layers of quality, over the usual outsource to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh kind of stuff. So, rather than having an uncontrolled, we try to put first all controls over what we're doing to mitigate as much as we can those risks.

James Rose:                       Yep. Yeah. And I love it. Yeah. All right. So, we will have a landing page for people to go to, to sign up with you guys. It's beautiful. It's pretty long URL. But let's just say let's, let's put it at agencyhighway.com/g that as a short link to the landing page and it'll. It's actually a Content Snare branded landing page. But as you guys know, that's, you know, we run both of those things. So, hopefully there's not too much confusion there.

Damian Papworth:          I mean the next step is, if you want to come and talk to us about your situation, what we'll do, we've got yeah. If you just hit on that landing page, if you just put your details in, I'll have someone from our office here in Australia, either Diana or Michelle get in touch. Have a chat to you about what you're looking for and we'll give you some like, you know, I recognize that, it's sort of taking this step is a bit of a risk for a lot of people and you want to have a look under the covers first. So we, we have trials that I've offered James, which on the landing page where you can actually have a proper look at what we're doing, before committing to anything. So, and that's like when I say a probable coming, you know, I think it's three months or something, without charge of one service.

James Rose:                       Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a pretty fricking awesome offer and you guys, can offer that to people. I think if you are considering growing a team without, you know, and want to just outsource it to another company that does it well. I would recommend checking out Globital and you can check out that landing page. It's a free trial so you can just fill in your details and they'll talk to you and take it from there. So, yeah, that's it.

Damian Papworth:          Excellent, beautiful. Well, thanks James.

James Rose:                       Damien, thank you very much for joining me. Yeah, absolutely. It's been a long time coming and I'm glad you finally did this. Awesome. Thanks, Damian. This has been another episode of Agency Highway. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to iTunes and leave a review or share it with someone you think will benefit. So you in the next episode.